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Post by brocher on Jul 12, 2012 18:08:34 GMT 1
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Post by brocher on Jul 13, 2012 18:56:51 GMT 1
Hi All,
Please see below our proposal for adding the Men to our National Tour commencing 2013.
Entry Fees :
£10 Affiliation for all categories exept Juniors who are FOC.
U21's & Seniors £10 will allow entry to both their own category and Mens Tour.
Men - £160 (6 Events @ £25 each + £10 Affiliation)
Ladies - £100 (6 Events @ £15 each + £10 Affiliation)
U21 - £100 (6 Events @ £15 each + £10 Affiliation)
Seniors - £100 (6 Events @ £15 each + £10 Affiliation)
Juniors - (6 Events @ No Charge)
Prize Money :
Eighty Percent 80% of all entry fees will be paid out as Prize Money.
The 20% left over will be used by the SEPF for costs/expenses in 2013.
Example : EEPF & WEPF Affiliations / Cost of running events / Trophies etc.
The plan is to run 6 ranking events throughout the year :
Event 1 - Tour 1 - March (R1)
Event 2 - Tour 2 - May (R2)
Event 3 - Scottish Masters - June (R3)
Event 4 - Tour 3 - August (R4)
Event 5 - Scottish Singles - September (R2)
Event 6 - Tour 4 - October (R5)
Mens Tour Proposal :
64 players througout our regions will be invited to join the tour direct entry(£160 includes affiliation).
This will be payable by 28th February 2013.
Any other player within our federation that are outwith the 64 invited players may also join directly
at the same rate (£160 by 28-02-13).
All National Tour will be an Open Draw NO SEEDING.
The Regional Tours will then work as feeder tours to the National Tour.
NTQ = National Tour Qualifier SMQ = Scottish Masters Qualifier SSQ = Scottish Singles Qualifier
Event 1 - Regional Tour 1(NTQ) - All Regions - Early March
Event 2 - Regional Tour 2(NTQ) - All Regions - Early May
Event 3 - Regional Tour 3(SMQ) - All Regions - Early June
Event 4 - Regional Tour 4(NTQ) - All Regions - Early August
Event 5 - Regional Tour 5(SSQ) - All Regions - Early September
Event 6 - Regional Tour 6(NTQ) - All Regions - Early October
Entry Fees : £10 Affiliation + £10 per Tour
Half Entry fee to National Tour Qualifying Places
Half Entry Fee Prize Money All in / All out.
Example : 50 entries at £10 = £500
10 NT Qualifiers = £250
Prize Money = £250
Each Affiliated League will also be able to hold qualifiers for National Events for their own players
based on the same format as the Regional Tours.
All qualifiers in any of the above events will be based on 1 qualifier for every 5 entries.
SHOULD ANYONE PLAY IN THESE QUALIFIERS AND NOT QUALIFY THEY CAN STILL ENTER
THE NATIONAL EVENTS FOR £25.
All other categories Ladies/Seniors/U21 @ Juniors will run as they do presently.
Each Region can still run their own tours/events for the above categories also.
Can you all please let us know your thoughts on this proposal please.
Any questions and queries are welcome.
At present this is only a proposal and all views / comments will go towards deciding
whether this goes ahead or not.
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Post by Brad on Jul 14, 2012 15:42:08 GMT 1
I wouldn't be too happy seeing half of our regional entry fees paid into a national fund. That would be well over a grand reduction of local prize money within our Region 4 tour over the season.
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Post by thecentralscrutinizer on Jul 14, 2012 18:38:25 GMT 1
Yes I don't think it will go down well to take half of the monies generated in the regions to subsidise the top players. It would be a kick in the teeth too far after the scottish singles nonsense.
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Post by Brad on Jul 14, 2012 20:12:45 GMT 1
I've expressed my concern in an email and been told that the top players in our region would be on national tour and not permitted to enter regional tour. The thinking behind this is that more grassroots players will enter regional tour.
Between Elgin and Keith we have about 20% of all league players on the tour already doubt we'll get any ipmrovement on that and I for one certainly wouldn't like to play for half the prize money even if people like Simpson, Macleod, Wood, McCallion, Cormie etc were all barred.
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Post by brocher on Jul 15, 2012 14:28:59 GMT 1
Guys i think you have picked this up wrong. The National tour will be self funding from the entry fees. Dek put in as an example only to show how regional tours could be run as a qualifier for their members to enter the national. The regions will pick the players who are of a high enough level to compete on the national and the remaining players will form the regional tours. This makes it a more grassroots level event/tour and we think it will encourage the league players to attend. However if any member of a regional tour wishes to try their luck they can directly pay themselves onto the national or as deks example, might want to do a qualifier. at no time will regional money prop up the national. We would think most regions would possibly have between 8-15 players of that level so if you have 8-9 thats perfect. Depending on how many we get we might have to do the national mens on a different day especially with the growth of our youth. As dek says on his proposal nothing is set in stone and that is why we will be asking you all for input. On that note can i ask you all to make your voice heard on all these proposals when they appear because if you dont and we run with it and your not happy you have no one to blame bar yourself.
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Post by derek on Jul 15, 2012 15:08:25 GMT 1
Guys
As Mike says nothing will be taken away from regional tours.
There will be a group of players throughout the country that will be
invited to enter the national tour. These players will be the best players
that have already proven over the years that they are the best.
No monies will be taken from regional level and regional tours will become
more competitive as the top players from that area will not be playing.
We see it as progression and growth.
National Tour will have all the top players competing regularly against each other
thus enhancing our national team.
All other players from league level upwards competing at regional level.
Players competing at regional level can enter national tours by paying direct entry
or by the regions using their tours as qualifiers.
Example used above is possibly a bad one as it looks like half of the prize fund is taken away.
This is not the case.
Example : If you decide as a region that the winner of your tour will get a place in the nationals
then all that is used from your prize fund will be his entry fee.
If you decide the semi finalists warrant a place in the national tour then 4 x entry fees.
If you decide that no players will qualify for national tour then 0 from prize fund.
It is entirely up to each region what you wish to do.
And at all times players playing on regional tour can enter national tour directly by paying entry fee.
Selected players on national tour however cannot play in regional event.
Scottish Singles and masters will be open for entry to all SEPF players.
Remember National Tour if/when it happens will be used as the selection tool for all
National squads. So if you have no players on the national tours then you will have no
players playing internationaly.
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Post by derek on Jul 15, 2012 15:11:03 GMT 1
Guys
As Mike says nothing will be taken away from regional tours.
There will be a group of players throughout the country that will be
invited to enter the national tour. These players will be the best players
that have already proven over the years that they are the best.
No monies will be taken from regional level and regional tours will become
more competitive as the top players from that area will not be playing.
We see it as progression and growth.
National Tour will have all the top players competing regularly against each other
thus enhancing our national team.
All other players from league level upwards competing at regional level.
Players competing at regional level can enter national tours by paying direct entry
or by the regions using their tours as qualifiers.
Example used above is possibly a bad one as it looks like half of the prize fund is taken away.
This is not the case.
Example : If you decide as a region that the winner of your tour will get a place in the nationals
then all that is used from your prize fund will be his entry fee.
If you decide the semi finalists warrant a place in the national tour then 4 x entry fees.
If you decide that no players will qualify for national tour then 0 from prize fund.
It is entirely up to each region what you wish to do.
And at all times players playing on regional tour can enter national tour directly by paying entry fee.
Selected players on national tour however cannot play in regional event.
Scottish Singles and masters will be open for entry to all SEPF players.
Remember National Tour if/when it happens will be used as the selection tool for all
National squads. So if you have no players on the national tours then you will have no
players playing internationaly.
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Post by thecentralscrutinizer on Jul 15, 2012 15:17:12 GMT 1
I think it would be fairer to leave the money generated by regional tours in the regions for one. Secondly, I don't think it would be fair to say to players that they cannot play in regional events on their doorstep because they are deemed too good. I also feel that if there is to be no 'carrot' in the regional tour i.e. Scottish Singles places or International places then here's here is no reason for regional tours to pay their £250 affiliation fees either.
Tbh I like the idea of a national tour along the lines of the IM but I am not sure that players will expend £160 per season plus accommodation and travel for the privelage. SEPF national tour will cost £160 compared to the SPA IM Series that costs £25. Not sure that the players will want to go for that...
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Post by thecentralscrutinizer on Jul 15, 2012 15:20:14 GMT 1
I must reiterate that in no way will I support our grassroots players in this region subsidising the top players. It is an abhorrent way to go about things.
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Post by brocher on Jul 15, 2012 17:13:22 GMT 1
We have just said NO monies will prop up the national mens tour Adam. And who said their wont be any carrot we have other regions that have addressed that point and all the regions will have an input. As the post says its a starting point not set in stone.
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Post by thecentralscrutinizer on Jul 15, 2012 22:17:22 GMT 1
Glad to hear it Mike. Remember I am merely providing some feedback as requested. I have a few more reservations but will wait to see the next draft of your committees proposals.
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Post by brocher on Jul 18, 2012 15:26:44 GMT 1
After responses from the players it has been decided not to use regional tours
as feeder tours. So National Tour will be direct entry for those eligible to play
in the SEPF Mens National Squad only.
As Staffe himself stated on The SPA site yesterday in most regions numbers on
Regional tours are dwindling. This is not unusual as the turnout at most events are
on a downward slide. The SPA & EPA are the same with numbers down at a lot if not
all of their events.
The SEPF have just had a very successful World Championships in which as you know the men did exceptionally well in getting to the TV stages / Semi Finals.
We want to build on this by introducing a National Tour.
We have already received a good response from the regions and feel by introducing this in 2013
It will increase our playing members across the board.
Positives for this we believe are:
NATIONAL TOUR
- The National Tour will see the best players competing against each other regularly.
- The National Team managers will then be able in theory to select stronger squads.
- The National Tour will then become a tour and not a series of events in all 5 regions.
- The National Tour will be a direct vehicle for squad qualification.
- The National Tour will see all player categories from Juniors through to seniors competing
at the same venues over the same fabulous Pool weekends
REGIONAL TOURS
- The Regional Tours throughout all 5 regions will increase in numbers
(Coz top players aren’t there).
- The Regional Tours will be more geared towards Grassroots/League players.
- The Regional Tours may actually be cheaper to enter.
- All Regional Tour players will still be eligible to enter the 3 Majors Open/Masters/Singles
- All Regional Tours as well as National Tours will still be supporting local venues within their Regions.
These are just a few points and as we have stated this is not set in stone. We have tweaked a few things already after feedback from all regions.
At the end of the day we want to run events that the players support.
Your input is important and that is why we are asking.
So please feel free to give your views good or bad.
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Post by thecentralscrutinizer on Jul 18, 2012 16:34:04 GMT 1
Are you going to ban certain players from regional tours?
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Post by thecentralscrutinizer on Jul 18, 2012 16:49:01 GMT 1
Raymack, PM sent.
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Post by derek on Jul 19, 2012 13:30:13 GMT 1
Are you going to ban certain players from regional tours? We dont ban players mate. This tour is being propose to benifit players NOT restrict them. The top players will have the chance to compete against each other throughout the year with the best ones securing international selection as well as decent prize money. The regional tours will be there for those who do not wish to compete nationally. Regional tour players will still be able to compete in 2 of the national events, The Scottish Open and The Scottish Masters. Plenty of Pool for everyone. |
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Post by derek on Jul 19, 2012 13:35:36 GMT 1
I must reiterate that in no way will I support our grassroots players in this region subsidising the top players. It is an abhorrent way to go about things. FOR A TEACHER ADAM YOU NEED TO LEARN TO READ THESE POSTS. Abhorrent  Good coming from a possible future SPA rep. SPA IM's = APPROX : 800 PLAYERS X £25 = £20K 90% of the above 800 are grassroots FACT Prize Fund - Whatever that may be, Split between top players / internationalists. You're havin a laugh............................ |
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Post by thecentralscrutinizer on Jul 19, 2012 13:46:26 GMT 1
Lol! You must be worried!
Your so called FACT drivel is always a pleasure to read Derek. Please continue!
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Post by derek on Jul 19, 2012 13:53:35 GMT 1
I must reiterate that in no way will I support our grassroots players in this region subsidising the top players. It is an abhorrent way to go about things. FOR A TEACHER ADAM YOU NEED TO LEARN TO READ THESE POSTS. Abhorrent Good coming from a possible future SPA rep. SPA IM's = APPROX : 800 PLAYERS X £25 = £20K 90% of the above 800 are grassroots FACT Prize Fund - Whatever that may be, Split between top players / internationalists. You're havin a laugh............................ Is the above ABHORRENT or NOT Adam ? Worried (Shaking in my boot lol) |
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Post by thecentralscrutinizer on Jul 19, 2012 13:54:58 GMT 1
As everyone knows approximate facts are the best facts.
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Post by thecentralscrutinizer on Jul 19, 2012 13:57:20 GMT 1
Fact = something that is indisputable
Approximation = a best guess
Abhorrent = something that inspires loathing or disgust
Everyday is a school day.
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Post by derek on Jul 19, 2012 14:03:38 GMT 1
As everyone knows approximate facts are the best facts. Could easy get the exact number mate but cannae be fecked with it. YOU slate the fact that money is coming from regional tours to national tours and when on this post you are ensured twice that it wouldnt. Yet you support the famous IM system that whatever the numbers entered are 80% plus of the entries dont even make it to an event. And 80% plus of the prize fund has been donated by the above. Unbelievable double standards and total bollocks from such an educated man. |
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Post by thecentralscrutinizer on Jul 19, 2012 14:21:58 GMT 1
I am not prepared to get into a slanging match with you Derek. It has been done to death on various other sites and it is mindnumbingly boring.
I look forward to you attending the upcoming meeting in Elgin, in whatever capacity you have with the SEPF these days, to discuss next year's affiliation. That is the place for such tedium.
As regards this national tour, I think it is a good idea in principle but I don't think you will get many interested in it from here which is why I was asking about the SEPF's intentions about our tour.
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Post by thecentralscrutinizer on Jul 19, 2012 14:26:29 GMT 1
While we are on the subject of the regional tours, what 'carrots' will the SEPF be offering to keep us paying the £250 affiliation fee? Given that international squad place, trial places and Scottish singles seeded places will have gone...
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Post by derek on Jul 19, 2012 14:46:47 GMT 1
While we are on the subject of the regional tours, what 'carrots' will the SEPF be offering to keep us paying the £250 affiliation fee? Given that international squad place, trial places and Scottish singles seeded places will have gone... These carrot will not be gone Adam. They will still be there on The National Tour. Again nothing is set in stone but there will still be incentives for Regional Tour players as all SEPF players are of the same importance. - Top 2 from regional tours will gain promotion to National Tour - Top 2 from each regional tour will be offered places at the European and World Masters. - Top 13 from each of the 5 regional tours will qualify for a new Event The Scottish Grassroots Singles. These are just some ideas and any more input/suggestions are welcome. |
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Post by thecentralscrutinizer on Jul 19, 2012 14:58:03 GMT 1
I was talking about the regional tour to be clear.
Those sound like good ideas in relation to the regional tour. Fair too.
I will have a think and post some ideas after I have spoken with a few guys. We have the Summer Singles tonight so will draw attention to this thread and ask the players there what they would like to see.
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Post by thecentralscrutinizer on Jul 19, 2012 21:15:02 GMT 1
While we are on the subject of the regional tours, what 'carrots' will the SEPF be offering to keep us paying the £250 affiliation fee? Given that international squad place, trial places and Scottish singles seeded places will have gone... These carrot will not be gone Adam. They will still be there on The National Tour. Again nothing is set in stone but there will still be incentives for Regional Tour players as all SEPF players are of the same importance. - Top 2 from regional tours will gain promotion to National Tour WOULD YOU BE BANNED FROM THE REGIONAL TOUR THE FOLLOWING YEAR IF YOU DIDN'T WANT TO TRAVEL TO NATIONAL EVENTS? MARK BELL COOLD WE MAKE TH TOURS NORTH AND SOUTH AGAIN TO MINIMISE TRAVEL? TONY MCCALLION - Top 2 from each regional tour will be offered places at the European and World Masters. FROM THOSE SPOKEN TO TONIGHT THESE WOULD NOT BE TAKEN UP BY THE PLAYERS SPOKEN TO BECAUSE OF THE COST OF TRAVEL, ACCOMODATION ETC - Top 13 from each of the 5 regional tours will qualify for a new Event The Scottish Grassroots Singles. THIS SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA BUT FURTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT ENTRY, PRIZEFUND AND LOCATION ARE REQUIRED These are just some ideas and any more input/suggestions are welcome. SEE ABOVE FOR COMMENTS FROM OUR PLAYERS. I particularly like the idea of the north and south tours maybe have 3 events in Region 1 and 3 in Region 4. |
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Post by Brad on Jul 19, 2012 22:48:03 GMT 1
I'm with Adam on this one!
What's the answer to Mark Bell's question?
Also, will the R4 Tour still being paying £250 affiliation next season even though we would have lost the automatic squad place for tour winner = 8x trial places and 16 seeds for Scottish Singles?
Some people I have spoken to are suggesting we run an unaffiliated tour which effectively means nothing changes for the vast majority of players except we have a whole load of extra prize money each year.
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Post by derek on Jul 20, 2012 17:03:07 GMT 1
These carrot will not be gone Adam. They will still be there on The National Tour. Again nothing is set in stone but there will still be incentives for Regional Tour players as all SEPF players are of the same importance. - Top 2 from regional tours will gain promotion to National Tour WOULD YOU BE BANNED FROM THE REGIONAL TOUR THE FOLLOWING YEAR IF YOU DIDN'T WANT TO TRAVEL TO NATIONAL EVENTS? MARK BELL NO COOLD WE MAKE TH TOURS NORTH AND SOUTH AGAIN TO MINIMISE TRAVEL? TONY MCCALLION NO- THE REASON FOR NATIONAL TOUR IS TO INVOLVE THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE WHOLE COUNTRY COMPETING AGAINST EACH OTHER REGULARLY AND THEREFORE IF SUPPORTED BY THE BEST PLAYERS WE WILL OBTAIN OUR BEST NATIONAL TEAM. WE HAVE MADE HUGE IMPROVEMENT IN THE LAST FEW YEARS AND THIS COULD TAKE US ONE STEP FURTHER. - Top 2 from each regional tour will be offered places at the European and World Masters. FROM THOSE SPOKEN TO TONIGHT THESE WOULD NOT BE TAKEN UP BY THE PLAYERS SPOKEN TO BECAUSE OF THE COST OF TRAVEL, ACCOMODATION ETC - Top 13 from each of the 5 regional tours will qualify for a new Event The Scottish Grassroots Singles. THIS SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA BUT FURTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT ENTRY, PRIZEFUND AND LOCATION ARE REQUIRED These are just some ideas and any more input/suggestions are welcome. SEE ABOVE FOR COMMENTS FROM OUR PLAYERS. I particularly like the idea of the north and south tours maybe have 3 events in Region 1 and 3 in Region 4. |
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Post by Brad on Jul 20, 2012 20:34:07 GMT 1
Derek, you've answered 'NO - players wont be banned from Regional Tour if they dont want to play on National Tour.
Mike McDonald has replied differently on another site, avising that players could and should be banned if deemed too good for the Regional Tour.
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